Dons EzeFormer Secretary General of Arewa Consultative Forum (ACF), Mr. Anthony Sani has raised the alarm that the rising poverty levels in Northern Nigeria are a powder keg waiting to explode soon.
To this end, Sani called on leaders of Northern region to act fast and tame the snowballing abject poverty, noting that its consequences will consume them.
In this interview, the former ACF scribe also spoke about crisis between Dangote Refinery and the Nigeria National Petroleum Company Limited (NNPCL), saying that Dangote Refinery is a victim of international and local interests.
He also spoke on Oronsaye report, saying it has outlived its capacity to address the current bloated public service of the country.
What can you say about the recent protest and the violence in the North?
If the intention of the protests was to draw attention of the government to the fact that its policies have brought about the pain that comes with the hardship, I think the point has been made and Mr President has admitted that much and promised to address the challenges in the economy.
As to the violence in the North I would let you know these reports about what President George W Bush and former President Bill Clinton once said about poverty in the third world. President Bush posited that third world leaders tend to weaponise poverty because they believe poverty is directed at the heart of freedom. Former President Bill Clinton was pithy when he said the same poverty is powder keg waiting to be ignited by indifference of the leaders.
The violence in the North has made what Clinton said to be a truism and a signal to Northern leaders about what can happen if nothing is done about current challenges.
What is your view about poverty in the North? How worried are northern leaders and what are they doing about it?
Poverty in the North is real. And this is because education, which is the instrument of empowerment that narrows inequality is stymied by the number of out-of-school children. This stokes ignorance and the poverty. With the way the protesters have obeyed the curfew in the states, there is hope that the situation can be reversed by consciously directing efforts by the governors. That is to say, the situation is not beyond redemption.
What is the significance or implications of carrying Russian national flags during the protest?
I have no idea about the origin of the Russian flags. Some people say the flags were supposed to be military flags and the tailor made mistake while others say the flags are from Russia. Whichever way you look at it, whether invitation to the military for incursion or for Russian influence, it is not helpful.
This is because, like Chief Awolowo once said, the worst civilian government is better than the best military regime. Most of those calling for military intervention are those who have not experienced military rule. As to the invitation for Russia to have influence in Nigeria, it is important to point out that the problems of Nigeria is economic, and Russia’s economy is not that strong for it to help Nigeria. This is because Russia is only strong militarily and not economically.
What can you make of President Tinubu’s speech about the protest?
The protesters were on the streets against hunger and hardship occasioned by the removal of subsidies on fuel and the naira. That is to say, the hyperinflation is due to government policies.
President Bola Tinubu used the broad cast to let Nigerians know that removal of the subsidies was not a matter of choice, considering the volume of production and the price of crude oil which are half of what obtained in 2012 when he and some of us opposed the removal because we thought the nation could afford it. And now that subsidies are not sustainable, the decision has to change.
He also listed the efforts the government has been making in order to revamp the economy. There was nothing wrong with that except that he left out what the government is doing to reduce cost of governance. Government officials should lead the charge for the required sacrifices and dare the rest of Nigerians to follow.
Now oil marketers are saying that they cannot import and distribute fuel because they cannot sell below N1500 per litre in the current circumstances. What should government do?
All these crises about pump prices is because we are still importing our fuel amid removal of subsidies on both fuel and the naira which is in a state of flux. If we stop importing our fuel, the inflation and prices of fuel would reduce. And the only way to stop importing our fuel is for the government and all stakeholders to go as far as their variegated efforts can go and help Dangote Refinery to start functioning fully and provide our needs locally. Dangote Refinery is among those companies that are too big to fail. No two ways about it.
Are you worried that nothing has been done about the oil discovery in the North that was announced during the Buhari administration?
It is a pity that I have not been following the development since President Buhari commissioned the exploitation of oil in Gombe and Nasarawa states. But I do not want to think such efforts have been abandoned. As an investigative journalist and a northerner, you are in a good position to find out and let Nigerians know the progress in that regard.
Some have said that the Dangote Refinery is being rendered ineffective by some political interests. What do you think?&sct=ID
All the topsy-turvy about changes in pump prices of fuel are because Nigeria imports the refined products which are subject to market forces. But if Dangote Refinery were to function properly, it is expected that importation of fuel would stop and help the nation save forex.
But international and local interests are causing delay for Dangote Refinery to start and function properly. Internationally, climate change is making the developed economies not to be at ease with Dangote Refinery that will promote the use of fossil fuel.
What is more, proper functioning of Dangote Refinery would reduce the market share of refined fuel for existing refineries across the globe. We do not expect them to fold their arms and watch Dangote Refinery cut a big swath of their market. Locally, some vested interests are charging Dangote Refinery for monopoly of the petroleum industries, hence the frustration of Dangote Refinery. But I think if the other refineries in the country are made to function properly, there would be no monopoly. In any case, there exists anti-trust law that can check any practice which put small firms out of business.
What is your reaction to the statement by Vice President Shettima that the North has no reason to complain of hunger because Northerners are known for farming?
It is true that the North which produces most food for the country should not be the one crying loud about high prices of food, considering that most northerners are farmers. But the Vice President forgot to mention the sandbags which insecurity puts on the path of farming in the North. There are also challenges posed by lack of farming inputs for farmers. I believe if governments would secure the farms and help farmers with farm inputs, that will bring about increased farming and, thus, food security.
Insecurity is still ravaging the country, especially Northern Nigeria. What is the solution?
I have said it over and over again that the government should ensure there are enough number of trained and equipped security personnel who are well motivated to secure the nation. That is the aspect of punitive measure.
The preventive measure is for government to help address underlying causes of insecurity by improving the volume and quality of education in order to do away with ignorance and poverty which help provide canon fodders for promotion of insecurity. The current level of out of school children does not guarantee security.
The Oronsaye report is yet to be implemented as promised by President Tinubu. What is your advice here?
I think people are putting undue premium on the ability of the Oronsaye report to address the challenges of bloated public service. This is because the report is stale due to changing dynamics of the government and mechanism of community living.
It has been reported that there are plans by the National Assembly to create a central body to conduct local government elections across the country. What is your reaction?
Yes, because state independent electoral commissions have been abused by state governors to kill democracy at the local government level. There is the clamour that states independent electoral commissions should be expunged and replaced by the Independent National Electoral Commission (INEC) to conduct all elections that include that of local governments. To me, INEC should conduct all elections on the same day in order to reduce cost and prevent the bandwagon effect.
Some eminent Nigerians, The Patriots, recently visited President Tinubu, urging him to call for the review of the 1999 constitution. What is your take on this?
I have said it several times that the 1999 constitution is a clone of that of 1979 which was produced democratically. That is reminiscent of how the United States produced their own. In 1978, General Obasanjo constituted a 50-member Constitution Drafting Committee under the watch of Chief Rotimi Williams. Chief Awolowo declined, hence the butt of joke that they are “the 49 wise men” who drafted the constitution.
The resultant draft constitution was debated by an elected Constituent Assembly under Justice Udo Udoma before it was promulgated into the 1979 Constitution. Prof Nwabueze was the secretary. Many national leaders who professed jaunty face of democratic values like Zik, Awolowo. Jakonde, Bola Ige, Ajasin, Mbakwe, Aminu Kano, Ibrahim Waziri, Solomon Lar, etc, contested elections in 1979.
It was the 1983 coup which suspended the constitution. When Abiola and Abacha died and the leadership fell on Gen Abubakar Abdulsami, he constituted the Justice Nikki Tobi Committee to harmonize the 1979 and 1995 constitutions into one to enable him hand over in 1999. Nikki Tobi’s committee went round the country and came out with a verdict that Nigerians prefer the exclusive use of 1979 Constitution, hence the promulgation of 1979 as 1999 Constitution. The only additions were states and local governments created by IBB and Abacha.
That is why the 1999 Constitution is often said to be a clone of that of 1979 which production processes mimic that of America. And so when some people like The Patriots allege that the 1999 constitution was not produced democratically, I wonder how.
Before Prof Nwabueze died, he confessed that it was he and Chief Rotimi Williams who made the national government to be stronger than states, considering fissiparous tendencies and centrifugal forces that come with diversity. I do not think they were wrong. This is because only a strong national government that is balanced by appropriate state level power can keep this country under one roof.
Presently, the revenue formulae gives the centre 52 per cent and states/local govts 48 per cent; and the national government does not dictate to the two tiers how they should use their subventions. What we see very often is state governments that dictate to local governments. When some people blame colonialism for our woes, I draw their attention to Ethiopia which has never been colonized and operates ethnic based federalism, yet it has challenges of nation building. Somalia of one faith with almost one ethnic group is a failed state. In Lebanon, in order to address challenges posed by diversity, the president must be Christian, Prime Minister must be Soni and Speaker must be Shia, yet there is no peace in Lebanon.
We better know that most countries were crafted without seeking for the consent of the citizens. But most of these countries have come to terms with reality and have been making the most of the God-given diversity by working hard to overcome what divide the people. However good a constitution, it’s usefulness to the nation depends on the operators.
